Do We Need the Millennium?

[Mario]

er, does anyone actually think that the domestic scene would improve?

What reason would they have to improve it if thats all there is to play?

Just playing devils advocate here...

 

[sponge10]

Pete you say that 5 events is maybe to much to soon for the millennium series but i remember when they run the EXL season (2003) there was actually 7 or 8 events that year in europe,4 EXL/open x-ball and 3 or 4 7 man events with only norway(exl) having a really bad turn out of teams attending(mainly due to how expensive it was in norway).

I think that was a good season for european paintball as there was 4 locked events(8 exl teams) + open x-ball and then you had 3 or 4 open 7 man events which allowed the americans to come over and for us to play against,maybe this is something the millennium or someone else could look at doing again because that year 5 european teams finished in the top 16 of the NPPL PRO as well,London Tigers,Nexus,Shockwave,Ton Ton and Joy Division

 

[NSKlad]

For example.

Paintball European Cup (excuse the lame name)
You have a board of members
Board then choose the countries who are going to host the 4 or whatever number of events.

OK say its:
UK
Spain
France
Germany

So

UK - February
Spain - May
France - August
Germany - October

So when it comes down to the UK. You have UK Tournament organisers run it. Money going back into UK ball and the same for every country.
I'll use the UK as an example as i know the people.

So the UK event.
Syd - NSPL
Wendy - Masters
Russel - PA

They clump there money together and working out if someone puts in more than the other they then take that percentage in the tournaments takings.
So they pick a venue, new or existing. Group their fields together. They all already have Air and such sorted.
All that i can see that is needed is either some XL Turf, or grass which would be on par as the standard that Wendy used for the Welsh Open last year (cricket pitch if you weren't there).
This way, every country has the possibility to make there own money. Put a good event on, you would be known for a good event and get a better turn out year by year. Do a half assed attempt and either the board gives your spot to a different county or basically teams just wouldn't turn up.
Would give countries/domestic organisers something to battle out for, and we all know that would create better tournaments for us as they would want to be seen as better then such n such.

here here!

 

[Exile]

Perhaps diversification is the answer - not unification?

Pete you say that 5 events is maybe to much to soon for the millennium series but i remember when they run the EXL season (2003) there was actually 7 or 8 events that year in europe,4 EXL/open x-ball and 3 or 4 7 man events with only norway(exl) having a really bad turn out of teams attending(mainly due to how expensive it was in norway).

I like this thought - the 2004 season was a great year for paintball in Europe, hell the Yanks came over to compete in both formats.

You could run half the events as traditional 7 man, and half as CPL/SPL format (or, dare I say it - full X-Ball?) and unlock everything so the Americans could bring their full squads over, giving a sense of the grandiose back - you could bring back events like the DMA (always popular with our colonial brethren, can't think why) and Sweden (always a good event for parties, despite the cost) for the 7 man, and keep Toulouse/Paris for the X-ball "serious" competition.

Teams would have a choice of attending either or both format events, and we could have some FUN playing again......

Oh well, I can dream.

 

[Robbo]

Steve Baldwin just gave me a call to discuss some of what I had written and his thoughts re the subject of this thread.
I think he initially thought I was digging him (or the Board) out but after a while he realised I was in agreement with a lot of his own thoughts.
I think running the Millennium is a bit like the boy with his finger in the dike, he plugs one hole only for another to open up, a thankless task and ultimately an unprofitable business to be in, certainly thus far it has been.
He obviously realises there are shortfalls and maybe my suggestions are somewhat drastic especially when you factor in just how long he, and the other guys have been running the series.
The mere thought of ditching the series and going for a 'one off' event is gonna give him a heart attack if seriously considered, after all, let's be fair, it has taken them a long time to get where we are now in terms of a structured European series.

But what we both agreed on is, the landscape has now changed, and so has the difference between player (and vendor) expectation and what can be sensibly provided for at these events.
Industry money is now at a premium and the options available in terms of investment for the Millennium have similarly contracted.

Our 5 event series is a legacy from more affluent times when TV was knocking on the door and the industry was making a lot of money ...investment in tournaments and teams was seen (and perhaps understandably so) as the right course to take.

Steve and the other guys are in business to make money and in that sense the Millennium isn't a cash cow, nowhere frikkin near, and so perhaps they need to take a long hard look at what's best for them and by default what's best for ballers in Europe.
At the moment, it don't stack up in my head, we shall see if others think the same.
I made the point that if Laurent, he and the other guys all sat down and concentrated their efforts on producing a one off event for Europe, that it would in fact, be a great event; he agreed..but he wasn't agreeing he would do this, but he did agree that if it were done that way it would be a great event.
Getting him to think along those lines may give him and those guys a more focused perspective and maybe that's what's needed when they consider 08 and 09.
I don't know what they will do but I do know they are canvassing a wider opinion base than is normal for them and let's hope it provides them with a better idea of which way to go.

As I have said many times before, even when I am ripping them a new ass, i do believe they are trying to do the right thing but get somehow sidetracked when responding to criticism.

After my call with Steve, Barry Fuggle then called and I thought 'frikkin hell', this must be serious with both of them calling but in reality, he just needed to touch base on a few things that were going on Stateside.
The US position is important here because our fate is irrevocably tied up with them and so the Millennium guys are rightly trying to work out what is gonna happen over there as this affects what we do here.
We are in a period of flux that isn't gonna settle for a few months yet but I think 08 will at least start with a more consolidated face and this process will be completed by 09, and that includes Europe.

 

[Robbo]

Pete you say that 5 events is maybe to much to soon for the millennium series but i remember when they run the EXL season (2003) there was actually 7 or 8 events that year in europe,4 EXL/open x-ball and 3 or 4 7 man events with only norway(exl) having a really bad turn out of teams attending(mainly due to how expensive it was in norway).

I think that was a good season for european paintball as there was 4 locked events(8 exl teams) + open x-ball and then you had 3 or 4 open 7 man events which allowed the americans to come over and for us to play against,maybe this is something the millennium or someone else could look at doing again because that year 5 european teams finished in the top 16 of the NPPL PRO as well,London Tigers,Nexus,Shockwave,Ton Ton and Joy Division

Jimmy, that was then and this is now mate, times have changed, the Yanks have pulled far away from the average Euro pro team.
The fact we had those Euro teams up there with the Yanks during that period was mostly due to the fact hard line training was just beginning to take hold and we could at least try and compete.
Nowadays as you know, the Yanks train a lot more than we can and accordingly pulled well away; we weren't up there with them during the period you mention because of any league structures we might have had over here.
The money isn't gonna be there now for a lot of these teams to play.
We do not need any more diversification Jimmy in terms of format, we need a consolidated format with consolidated leagues if we are gonna go down that road.
I ain't saying I got the definitive answer but I do know the direction we are now taking is wrong if we are to look at the problem of giving bang for your buck to the customer.
I am just asking people to think about alternatives mate.

 

[sponge10]

i feel that the locked divisions are killing paintball in europe which was done because the americans did it in the nppl/psp(as they say whats good for the goose isnt always good for the gander!!) just look at the amount of posts about div1 teams playing against dynasty in belguim as compared to the amount of posts to who actually won the CPL/SPL divisions,just unlocking the divisions aint going to make everything ok but i believe it would be a step in the right direction

 

[Buddha 3]

Yes

Yes, we need the MS. Sorry to go against all the nay-sayers...

Let me explain. We don't need the MS in the sense that it has to be the exact same people, doing the exact same events, under the exact same name.
We do need the MS in the sense that we need a group of people that are willing to take a big financial risk in staging what is the highest possible level of paintball in Europe.
They are taking a risk, I know some people have already pulled out in the past, as they lost a lot of money trying to make an event that was right. Remember Amsterdam 2003? That was damn near perfect. Yet a few years later, no more Amsterdam.

It doesn't need to be the same people that run the league. For all I care, a new group of people could move in and set up a new high level league, NPPL Europe, or whatever. But the fact is that not many people are willing to take the risks involved, so chances are that we are "stuck" with the people that do it now. At least for the short term. So in that sense, we do need the current crew.

Now, to me it is absolutely vital to have a series like this. Dumping the MS and going back to some domestic league, with maybe one big scale event during the season, while perhaps fun, will kill off any real development. In order for a sport to thrive and players to attain higher skill levels, there HAS to be that next step up. That next step up is a European podium to play on.

Let me use a different sport to show you what I mean.
American football in Holland is of a low quality level when compared to most European countries (not all, most). There are only a small handful of teams that are actually good (and cosequently play in the highest division), with one team over the past years sticking out above the rest. This team has won the Dutch national championship 5 years running.
What this resulted in was the skills of this championship team were stagnating. After all, they didn't need to get better.
But they moved on to also playing on a European podium. The first season they pretty much got their asses handed to them, because they had gotten complacent to playing a certain level. But in order to compete within the European league, they were forced to step their game up. They did. The next season they did much better. Not winning the European championship, but being a contender none the less.

In the same way paintball teams need this stimulation. There HAS to be that higher platform.
If you don't have that, pretty soon there will be two or three teams that are the best in the UK, but aren't worth sh*t internationally.
Sure, it's fine for the teams that just play for the fun of it all (nothing wrong with that) to just go domestic, that even makes a lot of sense. But for those teams that want to get better and better, they MUST continue to set their goals higher and higher.
Failure to do that will lead to stagnation.

So in that sense, we need a group of people, similar to the MS, willing to put their money in a series like that. And as I don't see anybody other than the MS boys stepping to the plate in the near future, we do need the MS. Love them or hate them, but they are the only European platform at the moment. Sure, they make mistakes, some of them huge ones, but they are the only game in town.

 

[Dusty]

Yes, we need the MS. Sorry to go against all the nay-sayers...

Let me explain. We don't need the MS in the sense that it has to be the exact same people, doing the exact same events, under the exact same name.
We do need the MS in the sense that we need a group of people that are willing to take a big financial risk in staging what is the highest possible level of paintball in Europe.

So in other words, we don't need the CURRENT MS, but we do need a top level tournament series.

If the NPPL (or whoever) were to branch out to a European series, and this new head honcho does his homework, the existing MS might as well pack up and go home...........

 

[Magued]

I think the Millennium series are in good shape.

I do however think that they need to change a few things that can make it better.
The idea to ditch the entire series to "free up resourses" is just silly. I mean the teams that want to "free up resourses" can do that today by simply not attend.

European paintball needs a major series in major citys to make the sport grow. To present to sponsors and media and young people that may start playing. And a showcase for new products, new teams etc
European teams also need to play against each other to become better witch local events wont be able to produce.