full auto mode (ok or not?) ramping in UK

[RainbowShooter]

So if we want a level playing field say get the pros give up their egos dm7s etc pick up a 98 tippmanns and say get to it. That would be a level playing field. All the same gun same trigger setup same accuracy.

They did that with Tac-5s at HB this year, funny as

 

[Bob]

As for legality of firemodes:
There is no UK law that covers this, lets hope there never is.
All of the firemodes we use are 'assisted', so 'semi', ramping, fully auto etc etc are all equal in the eyes of the law.

From the sticky in the techroom.

 

[icejohn]

bacially legislation is out of place

Bacially legislation is out of place. The fire arms act aims to cover exactly that fire arms and prevent harm coming to the public by preventing use of dangerous weapons. I agree with the sentiments of the act. It just does not cover paintball as some people have said its not law others say ramping by definiton is illegal (which i can see from a definition point of few, and it does depend of your point of view eg assisted fireing etc wont go there). The fact paintball as a sport is dangerous without protective clothing. So is golf, i played a golf tournament and a spectator got hit on the head by a drive (not mine) and ended up unconscious in hospital (could hve been far worse). If golf is dangerous\risk to a degree. I think everyone admits there is some risk associated with living life (could get run over by a bus tomorrow). But paintball is a sport and its growing and changing. Lets hope it continues.

 

[Bob]

Right guys and girls:

Okay, my current unerstanding of the law is that turbo/assisted/ramping modes is a GREY area in paintball. The UKPSF say that the only recognised mode is semi-auto. How ever meeting with the police have show then they 'unofficialy' have no problem with ramp modes.

At this point in time the only place that can make a true (by this i mean legaly correct) decission is a court of law. This has not happened so ramp modes stay within this grey area.

My interpretation of this is that as an unresloved issue it in not entirly right or wrong within the eyes of the law. There are various sites/events (P.A, Millenium, Big Games) that allow ramp assisted modes. It may be better if we can get some of the millenium or P.A. guys i.e. Russel Smith to give us his imput.

Here is what the UKPSF have to say (how many of you are UKPSF registered or play in a registered league and havn't read the rules?).

http://www.ukpsf.com/paintballlaw.asp#6

Select Fire Modes
There has been a lot of discussion with regards to which of the above modes are “legal” in the UK. I have had several discussions with the Home Office during the past four years with regards to paintball markers and the law. In December 1997 the Home Office replied to a question I asked concerning select fireboards in electro-pneumatic markers. The statement issued at the time said:

“While only the courts can offer a final ruling, it seems likely that a paintball gun capable of fully automatic or burst fire would count as a prohibited weapon under Section 5(1)(a) of the Firearms Act 1968. The maximum penalty for possessing such an item is ten years imprisonment. A circuit board or chip to allow fully automatic or burst fire would be a component part of such a weapon”.

Further discussions this week and letters exchanged between the UKPSF and the Home Office have confirmed that Section 5(1)(a) prohibits any weapon, which discharges two or more missiles with one operation of the trigger.

Approximately two years ago representatives from the industry and the UKPSF had a meeting with a Firearms Officer and as a result of the meeting he was “happy” with the “turbo” mode demonstrated at the meeting. After further discussion with the Home Office this week they agree it is a “grey” area and that the only way of confirming the legality of the “turbo” mode would be in a court of law. There has yet been no case law relating to paintball markers. We do not want a court case, as the damage it could do to the sport of paintball is immense.

Another area that will create problems is the advent of select fire modes. These are the modes that the paintballer can programme into the marker with the possibility of programming some unique modes i.e. fire five shots in semi mode and then the marker goes to fully automatic mode or three shots in semi and then the marker fires two shots for every trigger pull. This would contravene the Firearms Act but would probably not be detected by the “chronograph” marshal at an event. The technology is not available to check the modes of a paintball marker at a paintball tournament. Currently chronograph marshals check the velocity and occasionally rate of fire but in future will they be expected to check the mode of the marker using a PC? The responsibility for the marker to be set in an approved mode is the players NOT the chronograph marshal or the event organiser.

There are now several versions of “turbo” boards available but without the use of sophisticated electronic equipment it is virtually impossible to confirm the rate of fire in relation to trigger pulls at a paintball event. Also players who have programmed a unique mode into their circuit board would probably say to the event organiser that they had a “turbo” mode as the word “turbo” now seems to cover any assisted trigger function.

Discussions have also been held with one of the Insurance Companies who cover paintball sites and events. They have expressed their concern with the current situation with regards to “assisted triggers”. They are concerned that the increased rates of fire could result in equipment failure and therefore injury to the player

In America where the law allows the use of fully automatic and burst fire modes the paintball industry in conjunction with tournament organisers has decided to allow only semi automatic modes. The very powerful American Medical Association has stated “Paintguns which were “mode capable” of firepower greater than “semi automatics” were a threat to the health and safety of the public”. The American Paintball industry feel that the political weight pulled by the AMA is immense and to protect the sport of paintball they must act now and restrict modes to semi automatic. The manufacturers of paintball markers will also be limiting the rate of fire to 13 shots per second on circuit boards.

With all these points being taken into consideration the United Kingdom Paintball Sports Federation has decided that as of today (26/01/01) the only recognised mode for a paintball marker is SEMI - AUTOMATIC.



ONE PULL OF A TRIGGER
RELEASES ONE BURST OF GAS
FIRING ONE PAINTBALL.


Accidental double balling will not be deemed as breaking this rule.

The UKPSF requests that all paintball sites and events organised in the UK operate this ruling.

This statement supersedes any other statement previously issued.

Please not this is my interpretation of the info I have read. Feel free to comment or argue.

 

[Bob]

It should be noted that the insurance companies will not cover any events that allow Full Auto to be used.

DO they cound Millenium or PSP ramp as full auto as it has to be maintained where as full auto is only one trigger pull?

 

[icejohn]

One Pull Of A Trigger

"With all these points being taken into consideration the United Kingdom Paintball Sports Federation has decided that as of today (26/01/01) the only recognised mode for a paintball marker is SEMI - AUTOMATIC.

ONE PULL OF A TRIGGER
RELEASES ONE BURST OF GAS
FIRING ONE PAINTBALL.

Accidental double balling will not be deemed as breaking this rule.

The UKPSF requests that all paintball sites and events organised in the UK operate this ruling."
=====================================================


The above is correct but like its been said its a "grey area" The date is way old (26/01/01) (6 years on) and UKPSF requests (note its not law) here that member paintball sites use this the above, as what a guildline? What happens of say you are on a site thats not a a member of ukpsf. I would say this ruling is outdated as there are touraments out there that run ramping modes if we follow our american cousins. Just about any paintball gun thats electronic nowadays has ramp modes avi. to use. mmmmmmmmm thats right to use........

legislation\ideas on how we play are outdated by technology.

 

[Seany]

i like my full auto im lazy, need it to become legal

 

[Marcus Geezer]

Legislation vs Recomendation

Although it is not law, the UKPSF have made recomendations which emphasise the use of semi-auto. I don't really know enough about the law or the UKPSF to comment properly, however I would say the UKPSF are acting in our best interests to promote paintballing by ensuring we keep on the right side of the law, so recomendations made by them surely should be taken very seriously?

For example, the HSE on a subject would recomend you do X, Y and Z to stay on the right side of the law, which is the same as the Highway Code, so I guess the UKPSF are doing the same kind of thing?

To further elaborate, we may not be breaking any law by using full-auto at 25 bps, but this would completely change if someone was hurt badly by someone using this. Then the law WOULD get involved in the form of the HSE and then it would turn into a right old mess.

 

[PreacherMan]

i have just got a lucky board by default (brought with gun) with so many modes... how many of them am i every going to get to use probably most would be illegal

 

[NitroBall]

i have just got a lucky board by default (brought with gun) with so many modes... how many of them am i every going to get to use probably most would be illegal

Illegal or not, we let the big boys deal with these issues.
Unless ofcourse you wish to take on the LAW.

For the players , we just play by the rules given to us.

So whatever modes you have, just use the ones that apply to that particular tournament.

If its a rec-ball site your playing at, then ask what modes are allowed, and what velocity they will allow.