Chicago, I don't know if everything you are saying is tongue in cheek and everyone else is just missing it, but either way, that was FUNNY.
K2 bites the bullet in Reunification Part 96
- Thread starter Baca Loco
- Start date
90 seconds should not be a factor in terms of potting/cleaning for Pro teams. You have a pit guy with a rocket loader or whatever who stands there and fills pods. That's his job. You have another person who wipes off players and goggles, and a few spare sets of goggles if needed.
The reason you cut your turnaround time is so teams don't get 3 minutes to sit around and talk between points unless they call a timeout. They don't get 3 minutes of rest. They need to balence the pace of their game on the field with their needs off the field. 3 minutes just makes life way too easy.
You simply do not need 90 seconds to wipe-off and re-pod your squad. It's PLENTY of time. Cutting your turnaround time to 90 seconds doesn't do anything to prevent teams from getting back on the field barring massive screwups. It DOES make it harder on teams who are out of shape. It does mean a lot less dead time for spectators. It does mean you may need to jog out to the starting station instead of moseying. It does mean your coach gets half the time to change the team game plan. Hell, for all you people who think coaching ruins the game, how about not giving the coach 3 minutes between every point to coach?
Cutting time between points isn't about seeing who is best at filling pods - it's seeing who is best at playing the game without 3 minute pauses every play to rest and figure out what is going on/what you want to do.
I my dream world, when you play paintball, you play it as close to non-stop as possible for 60 minutes. Time spent NOT on the field NOT shooting people should, on general principle, be minimized as much as possible. Cut the timeout periods and people will figure out how to get done what needs to be done in 90 seconds, and you'll also get a much more constant, aggressive game.
There speaks a man who has never tried to clean off 5 players ALL plastered with paint in 90 seconds on his own! Take it from me - around 15 seconds per player (allowing time to change from one player to the other, and dump dirty/pick up fresh cleaning cloths) isn't enough if they have been hammered in the previous point.
And of course this assumes that every team has the resources to have at least one complete spare gun per player, to let these lucky (usually unpaid) pit crew gas up etc while the team is actually playing.
Liz is right - having played Div1 x-ball as well as helped in the pits, if a player comes in plastered (as is likely in x-ball and its variants) 90 seconds isn't enough time at all.
The rest of your points seem valid though.
The rest of your points seem valid though.
I'm not saying you JUST need one guy and everyone else just stands there - my point is tha you can do things so that you can turn your points around in 90 seconds. That may mean more pit crew, or more efficient pit crew, or whatever, but we definitely shouldn't be picking out timeout length based on how long people want to fill pods. Pick the timeout length, then teams need to take the actions necessay to turn around in that period. There is no reason a team can't make a 90 second work.
I'm also talking about the Pro level. Pro teams should have those resources. Obviously you'll need longer timeout periods at lower levels of play to accomodate the resources available.
I'm also talking about the Pro level. Pro teams should have those resources. Obviously you'll need longer timeout periods at lower levels of play to accomodate the resources available.
Indeed not, that would be a stupid way to do things. But I am amazed at the total chaos I encounter in most XBall pits. Most teams have given virtually zero thought to efficiently getting their players back on the field. 90 seconds is very doable with a little bit of prior planning.
And if you only have one spare gun for your team, the poblem isn't that the timeout period is too small, the problem is you don't have the equipment to play. You wouldn't play pro paintball with rental guns, would you? You shouldn't play pro paintball with one backup gun either.
A major point in M7 was that it is "playable" with the same resources that teams had in regular 7 man, 7 player, maybe a backup player in case of injury, one back up gun belonging to the spare player etc.
I agree with all the points that it is doable in 90 seconds but not with "European PRO" resources.
I agree with all the points that it is doable in 90 seconds but not with "European PRO" resources.
US Pro level clearly as Christian points out. I can't think of a single UK team (for example) who could afford to pay for the travel and hotels alone for the kind of pit crew you are talking about. As for efficiency, I've probably pit crewed for longer than just about anyone about (starting with the Preds BEFORE they won anything), and must be one of the fastest cleaner-downers at least in the UK!
Right...this thread was going well until the semantics of 90 / 120/ 180 second timeouts came along.
As Broz points out. If it's pre-recorded TV then it doesn't matter at all, we are never going to get paid (non-playing) spectators within the next 3 years, so it doesn't matter.
M7 is a good middle ground and seems generally acceptable to most.
Now move on to the rest of the points Cow raised:
What are the drivers of reunification? if it's money then expect 6 events tops, if it's political expediency against the possibility of the SP TV show taking off then 10 might be realistic. Personally I see one league and six events next year for various reasons.
Also - why oh why are we still holding a Div 3 event at the same time/place as a Pro event? Can someone name one other sport that the spread of competitor abilities and finances at the same event is the same as Paintball as I can't think of one. The SPL thing (appears) to have worked because it was in a dedicated environment without the limitations and compromises required by holding a big, multi-level event.
As Broz points out. If it's pre-recorded TV then it doesn't matter at all, we are never going to get paid (non-playing) spectators within the next 3 years, so it doesn't matter.
M7 is a good middle ground and seems generally acceptable to most.
Now move on to the rest of the points Cow raised:
What are the drivers of reunification? if it's money then expect 6 events tops, if it's political expediency against the possibility of the SP TV show taking off then 10 might be realistic. Personally I see one league and six events next year for various reasons.
Also - why oh why are we still holding a Div 3 event at the same time/place as a Pro event? Can someone name one other sport that the spread of competitor abilities and finances at the same event is the same as Paintball as I can't think of one. The SPL thing (appears) to have worked because it was in a dedicated environment without the limitations and compromises required by holding a big, multi-level event.
I find it quite amusing that we even begin to think we have some control over what the format is going to be if and when TV gets involved.
The ironic point about all this is, the guy who sits at home and knows nothing about paintball, eating his pizza and drinking his Budd is gonna decide.
The only way we will have any sort of handle on what format we play is if TV DOESN'T get involved and even then I am not so sure we will have any real influence.
The creation of XBall, leastwise in Richmond's mind, fulfilled two main criteria, firstly it provided Paintball with a much more exciting platform and also aligned the format and scoring system with more traditional sports.
Also, Richmond realized we needed to create a game that was more spectatable and therefore more attractive to the TV people.
ESPN's recent filming of the NPPL got around the sedentary nature of 7 man with the emphasis on editing, a wholly necessary function of production if that format was ever gonna fly, and for the most part, relatively speaking it was a great success.
The original aspirations of that first Dick Clark NXL deal was to create league Paintball, along the lines of basketball or football type productions but real time filming was never gonna provide a vehicle for any form of successful production.
Paintball just does not lend itself to this type presentation, least of all 7 man.
And so editing was to become a crucial and integral necessity of any production that had any sort of mainstream aspirations and when this was realised, it handed over control of format etc to the whims and wishes of whoever was producing the show.
ESPN, IMG, whoever, are not really gonna listen that much to us guys trying to uphold whatever ideas we have regarding what's inviolate in our game.
These TV guys are only interested in putting on a production that they think is gonna attract the demographic they are targeting.
And so, whatever tweaks, or revolutions they wish to create to *******ise our game so as to mould it into 'acceptable viewing' for the targeted American demographic, they will do, no argument.
And as an industry, we will chug along behind them, deferring to their every whim.
Is this a good thing?
Well it all depends upon what you want out of Paintball; if you want the essence of our sport to become mainstreamed and for a huge influx of new players and cash to be injected in, then get ready to change and begin tugging your forelock, practicing comments such as, 'Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, whatever you wanna do Mr TV sir'.
Or, you can buy a throne and sit on the beach emulating King Canute.
There is a third option however, and we arrive there by default in that the TV endeavour doesn't work out and we fail to secure any significant TV deal.
And in that case, we will struggle on as we are now and league integration will have to happen as a financial necessity with hopefully pragmatism and commonsense then becoming the main architect in how we structure the game and format thereafter.
The aspirations of paintball should then necessarily align itself with a world unified format and rule book.
I have just written my article for next month’s PGi and I am still not sure whether or not I want it to run because it deals with a possible major change coming our way if certain things pan out the way I believe they might.
Writing it was like negotiating a political minefield because some people in this industry are so damn fickle and paranoid that if you credit one organization, the other organization immediately accuses you of being in the other’s pocket.
This gets extremely tiresome and makes me even more cynical with regard to commentating on the state of our sport and industry.
The Smart Parts TV production maybe heralding a new era of paintball if the dice fall kindly for them and the consequences of that, if the dice do fall kindly, will be far reaching and dramatic.
At the moment, the fate of paintball hangs precariously between its natural evolution and a more dramatic destiny that involves an enforced evolution driven by American TV execs, hang onto your hats if the latter happens coz it will be paintball, but not as we know it.
The ironic point about all this is, the guy who sits at home and knows nothing about paintball, eating his pizza and drinking his Budd is gonna decide.
The only way we will have any sort of handle on what format we play is if TV DOESN'T get involved and even then I am not so sure we will have any real influence.
The creation of XBall, leastwise in Richmond's mind, fulfilled two main criteria, firstly it provided Paintball with a much more exciting platform and also aligned the format and scoring system with more traditional sports.
Also, Richmond realized we needed to create a game that was more spectatable and therefore more attractive to the TV people.
ESPN's recent filming of the NPPL got around the sedentary nature of 7 man with the emphasis on editing, a wholly necessary function of production if that format was ever gonna fly, and for the most part, relatively speaking it was a great success.
The original aspirations of that first Dick Clark NXL deal was to create league Paintball, along the lines of basketball or football type productions but real time filming was never gonna provide a vehicle for any form of successful production.
Paintball just does not lend itself to this type presentation, least of all 7 man.
And so editing was to become a crucial and integral necessity of any production that had any sort of mainstream aspirations and when this was realised, it handed over control of format etc to the whims and wishes of whoever was producing the show.
ESPN, IMG, whoever, are not really gonna listen that much to us guys trying to uphold whatever ideas we have regarding what's inviolate in our game.
These TV guys are only interested in putting on a production that they think is gonna attract the demographic they are targeting.
And so, whatever tweaks, or revolutions they wish to create to *******ise our game so as to mould it into 'acceptable viewing' for the targeted American demographic, they will do, no argument.
And as an industry, we will chug along behind them, deferring to their every whim.
Is this a good thing?
Well it all depends upon what you want out of Paintball; if you want the essence of our sport to become mainstreamed and for a huge influx of new players and cash to be injected in, then get ready to change and begin tugging your forelock, practicing comments such as, 'Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, whatever you wanna do Mr TV sir'.
Or, you can buy a throne and sit on the beach emulating King Canute.
There is a third option however, and we arrive there by default in that the TV endeavour doesn't work out and we fail to secure any significant TV deal.
And in that case, we will struggle on as we are now and league integration will have to happen as a financial necessity with hopefully pragmatism and commonsense then becoming the main architect in how we structure the game and format thereafter.
The aspirations of paintball should then necessarily align itself with a world unified format and rule book.
I have just written my article for next month’s PGi and I am still not sure whether or not I want it to run because it deals with a possible major change coming our way if certain things pan out the way I believe they might.
Writing it was like negotiating a political minefield because some people in this industry are so damn fickle and paranoid that if you credit one organization, the other organization immediately accuses you of being in the other’s pocket.
This gets extremely tiresome and makes me even more cynical with regard to commentating on the state of our sport and industry.
The Smart Parts TV production maybe heralding a new era of paintball if the dice fall kindly for them and the consequences of that, if the dice do fall kindly, will be far reaching and dramatic.
At the moment, the fate of paintball hangs precariously between its natural evolution and a more dramatic destiny that involves an enforced evolution driven by American TV execs, hang onto your hats if the latter happens coz it will be paintball, but not as we know it.