Opus Finale .... A Warts an' all Exposé of Paintball's Very Own Megalomaniac

[Return of the Silver Fox]

Not an argument. Thats like saying "well this person did something bad to a child, but I'll continue to buy his/her music because it's so good". If someone gives aid or support to a bad person, then that is what they must be judged on.

And I'm back in the room.

Apologies but I don't know your real name and it's difficult to gauge a person on their screen name. I'm John or JJ btw.

If you want to 'judge me' consider this.

I once owned a paintball business that went bust due to my business partner siphoning of large amounts of money. I was left thousands in debt and owed to a number of big companies including paintball ones.

Now I could have declared myself bankrupt, easy to do I believe (and quite popular). I didn't, I went back to my day job, arranged to pay all monies back when and as I could.
It took me years to pay it back but I paid all of it. Judge me on that.

As for Tim Barnett, I have played one big game (zombie land) and the UWL.
I coached his team the Shoreline Rangers on their first breakout event at the CPPS (they won). I have also, alongside the Sandbaggers, coached other breakout teams to get them into tourney ball. I have done all this for free as I believe it's a great way to promote the sport.

I regularly give out my gear for novice and experienced players to use/try. Again to promote the sport and my sponsors (none of which are affiliated to Shoreline).

Finally, by your definition, I'm a murdering, slave driving, deforesting, global warmer as I drive cars that use oil, buy Chinese products, eat beef and use electricity.

I also have a friend who was done for speeding. As its a criminal act that must mean I'm a bad person for associating with a criminal.

I will seriously try and stay out of this any further but it's difficult when you are using over the top analogies.

And I'm gone

 

[olliewidd]

And I'm back in the room.

Apologies but I don't know your real name and it's difficult to gauge a person on their screen name. I'm John or JJ btw.

If you want to 'judge me' consider this.

I once owned a paintball business that went bust due to my business partner siphoning of large amounts of money. I was left thousands in debt and owed to a number of big companies including paintball ones.

Now I could have declared myself bankrupt, easy to do I believe (and quite popular). I didn't, I went back to my day job, arranged to pay all monies back when and as I could.
It took me years to pay it back but I paid all of it. Judge me on that.

As for Tim Barnett, I have played one big game (zombie land) and the UWL.
I coached his team the Shoreline Rangers on their first breakout event at the CPPS (they won). I have also, alongside the Sandbaggers, coached other breakout teams to get them into tourney ball. I have done all this for free as I believe it's a great way to promote the sport.

I regularly give out my gear for novice and experienced players to use/try. Again to promote the sport and my sponsors (none of which are affiliated to Shoreline).

Finally, by your definition, I'm a murdering, slave driving, deforesting, global warmer as I drive cars that use oil, buy Chinese products, eat beef and use electricity.

I also have a friend who was done for speeding. As its a criminal act that must mean I'm a bad person for associating with a criminal.

I will seriously try and stay out of this any further but it's difficult when you are using over the top analogies.

And I'm gone

After hearing all this I feel that we, as a community, have no other choice but to take you outside and shoot you at dawn. You are a total rotter!

 

[Robbo]

JJ, would that life be that simple.
Since you've seen fit to contribute to this thread, it means your stated opinions can be questioned or affirmed, as needs be.
The guy who questioned your morals/ethics etc went over the top, I think all of us would agree with that.
But, here's the deal JJ, at what point do you draw the line when supporting someone who has screwed and cheated respected people in our industry?
I'll ask you another question, let's assume JJ, you have a pretty close friend in your team and 'he' just happens to own a paintball company that is respected and an integral part of the U.K. Industry.

If this friend of yours had been screwed by barnett instead of Gino, Simon and JBB [Powerball], would you then exercise the same degree of liberal thinking and forgiveness, and continue supporting an ingrate like barnett?

I know the answer to that already, and so, with that in mind, how would you then reconcile your present position with barnett in terms of how you would react if it had been one of your close friends?
You could of course suggest you would willingly still support barnett if your friend had been the victim ... If you try to tell me that then you really are not the person I thought you were JJ.
It's ok having principles, but they have to be exercised consistently ... It seems some people's adopted position in all this is determined by convenience and/or financial benefits, as in discounted product for those teams who decide to prostitute their ass for a few quid.
I'm curious as to how you would now try to square that circle JJ ...

 

[Missy-Q]

"Not an argument. Thats like saying "well this person did something bad to a child, but I'll continue to buy his/her music because it's so good". If someone gives aid or support to a bad person, then that is what they must be judged on."

Let's not bring MJ into this. He's a special case, and nothing was ever proven...

..or were you talking about Kanye? If you're talking about Kanye I get it. What he just did to his alleged latest child is unforgiveable.

 

[SwollenBallz]

Speeding is a victimless crime, unless of course you count the State as the victim (unless there where actual injured parties). Theft as what TB has committed actual has real life victims, those victims being the people he has effectively stolen from by way of his and Suzi's scams. Your other examples are also moot as you don't have any control over those actions or how you interact within those actions. But you do have self control with who you associate with and how you interact with them. Think of it in paintball terms. A player is playing a game and gets splattered. No one sees it, so they could if they wanted either wipe it off or call it. If they wipe it, they're being dishonest. If they call it, they're being honest. And that is the key word here.....honesty. And where you have honesty, you also have leading by example.

Ponder this. When or if you attend any of his events, in the full knowledge that he has left countless scammed victims in his wake either connected to that event or other past events, do you feel any empathy for those who have been affected? Or do you just block it out and say to yourself "I'm only here for the game".

I personally couldn't do that, as my concious would be weighing me down like a lead brick. So much so that it would actually give me sleepless nights.

And even if any of that still didn't create any emotional effect, there is one more final account you can use to make a judgement. It is something so horrific that it actually makes Valken and Powerball and every other financial victims losses pale into insignificance in comparrison. And that is the Barnetts using their own daughter as a means to make accusations against someone. That, bar actual abuse etc, has got to be one of the most henious acts a parent(s) can do concerning their children. So if/when you win a trophy at one of their events, and you and your team stand on that podium, and you all accept that trophy and shake their hands, think of that accusation and then say to yourselves "I'm only here for the paintball".



Edit: Yes I agree, as Robbo has pointed out, my methods of delivering my points can be seen as over the top, but I do believe they are still valid.

 

[Robbo]

Let's not get too carried away here by further complicating things with speculative situations.
This situation is quite simple really but what makes it seem worse is the nature of our sport/industry.
We are a relatively small industry/sport, and because of that, if someone doesn't play by the same rules of respect and honesty, it sticks out like a sore thumb ... and the majority response is always gonna be judgemental and critical if the breach was serious enough.
Our industry relies on people paying their bills, if people take your product and then cheat you out of paying, the response is predictable.
But what makes matters worse is the manner in which this was all done.

These were brazen acts of treachery upon respected members of our industry.
barnett is seemingly immune from guilt, immune to the attacks he has incited, immune to reason and fair play and yet, we still see people supporting him in some way.
Missy is right to suggest that buying something from an undesirable isn't grounds for an attack on the purchaser.
However, barnett's multiple deeds of theft, deceit and heinous attacks on people [Pete Russell's by far the most despicable] go way beyond what's deemed 'undesirable'.
barnett has single-handedly rewritten the book of treachery and dishonesty.
And if anybody tries to make excuses or justify continuing their support for barnett, they really need to take a long hard look at themselves through the eyes of the people barnett has cheated, deceived and wronged.

 

[WarFighters]

I've no time for anyone who puts money in Barnetts pocket, especially if the're aware of his antics.

It's mercenary as fuk.

 

[Return of the Silver Fox]

Pete,

Apologies for the delay, your question obviously needed some serious thinking about.

You certainly know what I'd do in relation to your first question. I'd walk over hot coals if he asked me to. I would for the whole team, except perhaps Piper (nah, even Piper ).
That said I'd be looking for a resolution to an problem rather than an escalation.

There in lies one of my main concerns

I don't necessarily think that all of the comments placed on here are designed to achieve that resolution though. A few will undoubtedly raise some sympathy (for the subject of this thread) as they are written by individuals who either can't get their point across in a reasoned manner or are clearly only aimed at inflaming the situation.

From a financial perspective I gain nothing from my position in relation to the UWL or with Shoreline. As said earlier I am happy to give my time, as are the rest of the team, to grow the sport. One thing I can't be accused of is being in Shorelines pocket.

One of my concerns is that current UWL teams, who in part represent some of the up and coming part of woodsball, may be ostracised if they attempt to move across to the new league. That will damage the current success the league, has had in growing, and could jeopardise a fantastic format and challenge the credibility to all involved

How do square it all, I'm not sure I can other than to remain unbiased but wary. I will always look after my friends and sometimes that means putting yourself in an objective position where you are in a position to play Devils advocate or mediator. It's sometimes unpalatable but an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind ( never thought I'd be using a Ghandi quote in a paintball forum!)

all that said, hot coals..

 

[Spikerz]

It is a pretty crappy position to be in, to want to help grow the sport when the players are largely not aware of the back room shady dealings and politics. Puts folks like the sandbaggers in a bit of a man in the middle position.

Hopefully there is some advertising and strong verbiage from Tom Cole and his crew, and the new UWL promoter. Only by out marketing Captain fancy shorts and his glad time band, will the message get to the players and they'll enjoy playing in the woods for a good and honest promoter and we won't have teams be in the middle anymore. Well at least the ones that just want to play a real affliated UWL league.

 

[rewind]

Interestingly, The standpoint from 'moving to the new UWL' is based on SL's UWL being *THE* UWL, when infact its not, and the UWL run by Tommy will be the UWL that will continue, link with the states, and have the continued rankings, points etc etc.

SL's UWL UK, whilst run by the familiar face, is the chinese copy, which is the confusing part for a lot of teams who are unaware of the situation, (or they just don't care), which in itself affects the league, and the numbers.

I am not sure who will be ostracised other than from those within SL's circle, given the fact that the 'move' is not to a new league but away from the new league, to continue with the existing league, albeit with a new promoter.

That being said, the Sandbaggers are not the ones to be dragged into the SL/TB fiasco, with players brandishing pitchforks and flaming torches. It is clear that near enough all on this thread are unable to fathom why people still line SL's pockets with banknotes given everything that has come to pass, however with what RotSF has said, it is clear that the main objective of the Sandbaggers is the giving of time to others and to enjoy paintball.

IMHO, however, I would say that when teams such as Sandbaggers are in such a high position to be looked upon as an example, much like Lucky 15's, Disruption, The Firm etc, then lines in the sand need to be made, if only to set an example for those who they are trying to help and to develop the sport further by setting good examples. This point probably has a number of counter arguments, but to use Uncle Ben's famous phrase, 'with great power, comes great responsibility'.