Gaza Incident & Paintball
- Thread starter Echowitch
- Start date
It's all just political posturing really. Netanyahu's government is a far more conservative one than the previous governments and he knows damn well that when he ordered this, there would be some booing and hissing in the UN. But given the stance the UN usually takes against Israel, why would they be impressed? Little fun fact: There have been more resolutions against Israel than there have been against Iraq. None of those against Israel have been enforced, since the US (and to a degree Europe) regard Israel as a somewhat stable outpost in the Middle East. Plus Israel has huge influence in the US lobby circuit and Europe still suffers from a major guilt trip towards the Israelis.
So the Israelis knew there would be some fistwaving and frowning, but that's about it.
However, people will now think twice before embarking on a humanitarian mission like this (whether real or a cover for something else), since you run the risk of getting blown to crap. So in the end, Israel wins this round, though whether it's fair play is highly debatable.
As for this:
So the Israelis knew there would be some fistwaving and frowning, but that's about it.
However, people will now think twice before embarking on a humanitarian mission like this (whether real or a cover for something else), since you run the risk of getting blown to crap. So in the end, Israel wins this round, though whether it's fair play is highly debatable.
As for this:
It could be only if the naval blockade were legal. The UN has never vetted a Blockade of the Palestinian territories, quite the opposite. There is no legal ground for the blockade. Even the blockade of Cuba during the missile crisis of 1962 was backed by the UN.
That's not entirely historically accurate...
Though it's undeniable that the Palestinians, like the Jews belong there. Just don't think that because Israel was formed in 1948, there were no Jews before then. That spot of land wasn't picked without a reason. Heck, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew...
Both people should be allowed to live there, both have a claim to the land, both have always been neighbours. Unfortunately, one of them is now slowly suffocating the other...
G
Gassy
Guest
I have tried replying to this thread several times and it is quite hard to do without sounding anti-jewish,the bold bit in Jays post is a large part of what I was trying to say.If an Arab country had done what israel has to the palestinians then the US/Europe would have invaded to free the oppressed peoples but it's not politcally correct to do it to a country who spends trillions buying your surplus military equipment .
Good post Buddha,That's not entirely historically accurate...
Though it's undeniable that the Palestinians, like the Jews belong there. Just don't think that because Israel was formed in 1948, there were no Jews before then. That spot of land wasn't picked without a reason. Heck, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew...
Both people should be allowed to live there, both have a claim to the land, both have always been neighbours. Unfortunately, one of them is now slowly suffocating the other...
Its nice to see people knowing what they are talking about.
I'll try to help you Craig ... the Israeli's use of influence within the political constructs of the UN is corrupt, both in its appliance and compliance of others.
The US's position in all this is also corrupt in terms of humanity and justice .... there is no explanation that can come from the mouth of anybody within the US government that could in any way justify their position and actions with respect to the Israelis.
For a country that waffles on about justice, fair play and freedom, they sure do compromise their self-acclaimed integrity when it comes to the part they play in this middle east theatre.
As an aside, I am not in any way anti Jewish, I am however anti-*******s, and as far as I know, everyone posseses one of those.
Mag, try to read my posts a little more mate
Mind you, when it comes to history, the wars and politics, Budhha is the absolute king of the academic castle ....
Sadly there is a very good reason why Israel's neighbours hate them.
An early example of a group using terrorism for political end was the Stern Gang, who were part of the Zionists who wanted to create the state of Israel. The UK was asked by the League of Nations and then by the UN to govern the former Ottoman Empire territory of Palestine after WW1 & 2 . The Stern Gang and friends started a terrorist campaign against UK troops and officials to force the UK administration out so that when we did, there would be a power vacuum that they could exploit to take over.
The Zionist radicals also targeted the Palestinians which casued a backlash from them. Stuck in the middle and being attacked by both sides, the UK got p***ed off and pulled out to leave them to it. The Zionists were prepared for this and the Palestinians were not, allowing the Zionists to takeover and create the state of Israel in 1948, forcing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes and their land, and who too this day are stuck in Refugee camps with no where to go and who have nothing but despair. It was this that caused the Arab countries to attack the newly declared state of Israel in 1948.
While I am NOT condoning their actions in any way, you can understand why the Zionists believed they needed to take their own land by force (especially after the holocaust and previous persecution of jews). However, the fact they did, and that the West did nothing to stop them (and even helped them), is all something that the Arab world is still very, very angry about. The Israelis may go on about fighting terrorism but Israeli actions then and now is currently THE single largest radicalising factor in the Muslim world, far more so that Iraq and Afghanistan. Being persecuted in the past is no justification for the Israelis to persecute others in the present & future.
We may refer to these Muslim radicals as terrorists but that is a poor definition. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The muslim world regards many Islamist groups as freedom fighters trying to reclaim land stolen from the Palestinians and that the Israelis are the terrorists. It all depends on your point of view politically. Hell, had the British won the US war of independence, no doubt George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would have been called terrorists. But history is written by the victors. And like the Washington, Jefferson et al, the Israelis won.
Both sides of the arguement have now locked themselves into a vicious circle of violence and extremism with little hope of getting out of it as things stand. A while it goes on, more and more in the Muslim world become radicalised.
I agree, it's a sensitive issue and one you don't feel comfortable with because you, and everyone else here, including me, is scared of being labeled as 'anti-jewish'
Why is that?
I think if we consider this question we can understand what's going on a little better. Do we all feel the same 'guilt' that the World felt in '48? It seems so from reading the posts above, so Why? The Brits, Dutch, Russians, US, etc all fought the Nazi's, and liberated the camps, and that was before most of us were born, so why should we feel guilty about that?
There's no doubt in my mind that, as Jay points out, World-guilt was what got Israel awarded the land in the first place, and had the Palestinians displaced. I think that was a cataclysmic decision, but strangely, the majority of those decision-makers were technically 'Christian', and it clearly states in the Bible that the Jews are to be 'cast out, banished to wander the earth homeless' (I'm paraphrasing, as I don't actually own a bible).
If the 'Christian' leaders of today are still feeling guilty about what happened in WW11, even though they weren't born, or were mere babes, and had little or nothing to do with it, why aren't they as concerned about what their book tells them, seeing as they claim to be 'Christians', and this claim would appear to be important enough to keep mentioning..? At what stage does it become OK to ignore history, move on, and act on current affairs in an objective and humanitarian way?
Also, is the 'Israel issue' a large, nuclear, version of the PC-mania that's been infecting our society since the 90's? Pete had asked, over at the Brain-Box, whether racism had become so Taboo that even to discuss it can be construed as racist. Does this apply here?
Thanks for that Jay, was genuinely unaware of that.That's not entirely historically accurate...
Though it's undeniable that the Palestinians, like the Jews belong there. Just don't think that because Israel was formed in 1948, there were no Jews before then. That spot of land wasn't picked without a reason. Heck, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew...
Both people should be allowed to live there, both have a claim to the land, both have always been neighbours. Unfortunately, one of them is now slowly suffocating the other...