Gaza Incident & Paintball

[The Zambezi Kid]

its kind of hard to be nice to your neighbours when they all hate you and have a history of trying to invade you.

Israel and it's neighbours are 50/50 when it comes to invasions.

Israel was invaded by Egypt and Syria in the Yom Kippour War (1970's), but that was an attempt to retake land lost when the Israelis invaded Egypt/Syria in the 6 day war (1967). The Arabs attacked first in 1948 when the Zionists launched their takeover of Palestine and the Israelis attacked first in the Suez Crisis (1950's). That's a simplified view as the whole history is far too much to post here.

Back on subject, the reporting on BBC news said the first lot of Israeli's in did have paintball markers on them.

 

[outkastmike]

No nothing political, but....................

Damn you Ben Elton................:doh:

 

[Missy-Q]

Good post ....

I rarely disagree with you Pete, but no-one seems to have a grasp on the actual situation. Failing that, I don't have a grasp, and everyone else does, but here goes...

The Israeli's are totally out of order.

The aid convoy sent out of Turkish Cyprus was US approved. The Israeli's told the convoy, and the US, that if it headed to Gaza it would be stopped in international waters. The convoy left anyway. They felt protected, because the US had given them an all clear, and they believed that the US had Israel on a short leash.
The Israeli's are demonstrating here that the US, who they feel are exercising too much 'control' over their military activities, 'ain't the boss of us'.
They went in heavy handed, it WAS, technically, an act of Piracy, unless they can prove that the convoy was not carrying aid, and holds equipment that would endanger Israel in some way. Stopping a boat carrying aid, and killing 15 people in the process, is not OK to do simply because small-minded people (not you lot) believe that Israel are anti-terrorist and 'acting for the global good'. Israel are no more anti-terrorist than any other nation. They are however more anti-Muslim than pretty much every other nation.

Ask yourself this. How much drama do you think would have been avoided in the middle east, in the past 50 years, if Israel was located in western Europe? How many lives saved?
I would go as far as to say that if there is a WW3 in our lifetime, it's the Israeli's that start it, chalking up millions more dead. I'm not an anti-semite, by any means, but I also cannot understand people that see Israel as a victim in the Middle-east. They are a heavily armed Tiger amongst a bunch of scruffy tabby-cat kittens.

This is my opinion. I am prepared to have it challenged, as I'm not married to it, but anyone who has the Israelis in white hats, and their neighbours in Black ones, needs to read-up more.


Note. The guns the Israeli's used are made by a toy company. I looked them up today. They are made specifically for the Israeli's, and they were apparently using a mix of ammunition, one of which was a metal-filings/paint mix. Sounds pretty nasty.

 

[Lump]

The aid convoy sent out of Turkish Cyprus was US approved. The Israeli's told the convoy, and the US, that if it headed to Gaza it would be stopped in international waters. The convoy left anyway. They felt protected, because the US had given them an all clear, and they believed that the US had Israel on a short leash.
The Israeli's are demonstrating here that the US, who they feel are exercising too much 'control' over their military activities, 'ain't the boss of us'.

Ah so if America said it was ok pattern seen all over the world these days

 

[Magued]

Pirates

How on earth can anybody defend the fact that a country board other nations ships on international waters, kill 10-15 of the crew and wound 50?

The Israelis now shows videos how their commandos was attacked by the crew. We dont even have to take in to consideration that the Israelis jammed all communication before they attacked. Or the fact that the ships was shoot at before they got boarded. Hell we can even go with the videos Bolter linked to released by the Israelis and consider that the hole story.

Its still the exact same situation if for example Somali pirates board a English vessel, and then when the crew put up a fight and the pirates start killing them I would come in here and say. " well they have themself to blame for resisting"
The ships was a humanitary aid convoy. The Isreaelis dont want the sieged Palestinians to get help therefor they took the law in their own hands. Sure we can all salute them for being so tough and macho. But that would be retarded...

 

[NSKlad]

as for the "peace" activist. the Israeli's offered to take the aid for them, or give it to the red cross and the Israeli's would let it though. if they were true humanitarians they would have let the red cross do it, as stopping the red cross would put Israel in massive political pressure

I stand by Missy's post in regard to yours. And I have to add, they shouldn't have to be offering to "take aid for them," they should have a much looser bloackade that allows in the correct amount of aid in the first place. Fair enough, they don't want more weapons coming on, but the militants don't care, either they blag stuff off the Lebanese or the Syrians or they home-grow, hence the fertiliser powered plant-pot rockets.

Good post by the Zambesi Kid also.

 

[baller11164]

I rarely disagree with you Pete, but no-one seems to have a grasp on the actual situation. Failing that, I don't have a grasp, and everyone else does, but here goes...

The Israeli's are totally out of order.

The aid convoy sent out of Turkish Cyprus was US approved. The Israeli's told the convoy, and the US, that if it headed to Gaza it would be stopped in international waters. The convoy left anyway. They felt protected, because the US had given them an all clear, and they believed that the US had Israel on a short leash.
The Israeli's are demonstrating here that the US, who they feel are exercising too much 'control' over their military activities, 'ain't the boss of us'.
They went in heavy handed, it WAS, technically, an act of Piracy, unless they can prove that the convoy was not carrying aid, and holds equipment that would endanger Israel in some way. Stopping a boat carrying aid, and killing 15 people in the process, is not OK to do simply because small-minded people (not you lot) believe that Israel are anti-terrorist and 'acting for the global good'. Israel are no more anti-terrorist than any other nation. They are however more anti-Muslim than pretty much every other nation.

Ask yourself this. How much drama do you think would have been avoided in the middle east, in the past 50 years, if Israel was located in western Europe? How many lives saved?
I would go as far as to say that if there is a WW3 in our lifetime, it's the Israeli's that start it, chalking up millions more dead. I'm not an anti-semite, by any means, but I also cannot understand people that see Israel as a victim in the Middle-east. They are a heavily armed Tiger amongst a bunch of scruffy tabby-cat kittens.

This is my opinion. I am prepared to have it challenged, as I'm not married to it, but anyone who has the Israelis in white hats, and their neighbours in Black ones, needs to read-up more.


Note. The guns the Israeli's used are made by a toy company. I looked them up today. They are made specifically for the Israeli's, and they were apparently using a mix of ammunition, one of which was a metal-filings/paint mix. Sounds pretty nasty.

its nice to see the views from someone across the pond

first off, i like to say that not liking the way Israel does its business is not anti-Semitic at, its the country not religion that selects what goes on.

the whole idea that this convey was for peace is just a cover story, if you wanted the aid to get though to the people, give it to the red cross, they have been doing this for years and in thousands of locations and will make a better job of it.

if the convey wasn't covered in "free gaza" and such logos it would have got though with no problem. the whole thing was a political statement. if they truly wanted to help the people of gaza, they would not have started winding up the Israelis.

the blockade was to stop weapons from reaching hamas, every ship would be stopped and searched, why should an aid ship be treated any different? Just because they said it was an aid ship doesn't mean is was.

as for putting Israel in allied land, where to you put it? the soviets wouldn't have given a square inch for it, i doubt the USA would have put it in its homeland, the french wouldn't have given anything, and you cant really put it next to post war Germany for the obvious reason.

(i started writing this just after missys post, thats why its misses the rest out)

 

[Magued]

its kind of hard to be nice to your neighbours when they all hate you and have a history of trying to invade you.

im not saying that the deaths were justified, they hardly ever are. however the fact that they went in with non lethal guns first shows it wasnt a planned massacre.

Israel is well known for its over-reactions, however i think its not anger or hatred that causes this, its defense. if someone is going to attack you and you win, making it hurt will make the attacker think twice before doing it again.

as for the "peace" activist. the Israeli's offered to take the aid for them, or give it to the red cross and the Israeli's would let it though. if they were true humanitarians they would have let the red cross do it, as stopping the red cross would put Israel in massive political pressure

* sorry for spelling or grammar fails, im quite badly dyslexic

A history of trying to invade them?
Lets see here in the name of defense ( or lebensrum ) they have invaded every single neighbor. 1948, 1956,1967,1982,2001, 2006, 2008 and counting...
They also started every single ones of thoose wars with the 1948 as a debatable case.
Egypt and Syria attacked once, but they didnt attack Israel itself. They tried to take back the territory lost in 1967.


As for the people you call "peace" activist, its was Nobel price winners, politicans from all over EU and US, Holycoast survivors, and many Jews. The cargo was inspected in every single harbor they visited to make sure it was clear this was a humanitary cargo.

As for giving the Israelis the cargo for them to send it to Gaza, well thats ridicoulous as Israel refuse to let most of the things Gaza need. They for example dont allow anything that can rebuild the destroyed houses the Israelis bombed last year. They dont allow most spices! They allow aprox 20% of the needed supplys just to avoid starvation. If the convoy had went to Israel and given them the supplies then less than 20% of the cargo would have reached Gaza. Exactly as the UN supplies is held back in Israel. A fact the UN have complained about for 2 years now.
But dont take my word for it, as for the red cross you refer to

http://www.forward.com/articles/108701/


Magued

 

[baller11164]

How on earth can anybody defend the fact that a country board other nations ships on international waters,

it was an aid convey, not owned or operated by any nation's government

 

[baller11164]

the six day was started by Israel as Egypt started amassing troops near the boarder, if Israel had waited for the attack from Egypt, it wouldn't have won